Cease and desist?
I wouldn’t normally do this but in this particular case, I feel my hand has been forced. I have removed a link in the Builder’s recommended sites, because the owner of the Webcomics Community e-mailed me to request that I shut down this website.
He seems to believe that what the Builder is attempting to do – provide good quality advice and resources for webcomic creators – is somehow divisive and fractures his idea of a coherent webcomics community.
I, on the other hand, feel that providing as much free information as possible is the best way forward; which is why I link to any and all good sites and tutorials that are on the web. I have no interest in being the only person providing knowledge and information, no matter how that concept may be cloaked.
So if you’re wondering why a site has been removed after I mentioned its existence in several places, now you know. I hope I don’t have to do something like this again.
So what does this actually mean? What’s going to happen? You’re not gonna shut it down just because some prick said he doesn’t like it, are you?
Oh, I’m not going anywhere. I just thought it would be right and proper to explain why I’m no longer recommending another site that wants to do the same as what I’m doing here.
I’m still going to be putting out as much good info on making webcomics as I can.
They want you to stop linking to a site that provides content and information? Do they understand how the Internet works?
If they don’t want anyone linking to their stuff, they should just not have their site up.
He didn’t ask me to stop linking, he asked me to shut down the site and work for him for no pay. In response, I removed the link to his site.
Wow. Uh…. wow.
I guess since Zoe felt it necessary to publicly decry my offer I’ll go ahead and defend myself.
Zoe whether you want to admit it or not you and I have very similar philosophies on the exchange of information. This comment in particular comes to mind “I, on the other hand, feel that providing as much free information as possible is the best way forward; which is why I link to any and all good sites and tutorials that are on the web.”
I agree; I simply feel that having it all in one place rather than scattered all over is better. Barring one place, less places.
And as much as you would like to paint me as some rollicking despot by calling me ” the owner of the Webcomics Community” and then bolding “e-mailed me to request that I shut down this website.” That simply isn’t the case. Our motto is “For Free, For Everyone, Forever.” I don’t feel I own the site. The site belongs to anyone making webcomics or providing webcomics services or support.
And I never asked you to work FOR me. I really think you completely missed the boat on that message. I asked you to come and work with me, with all the members at Webcomics Community in fact.. I even said “this is a friendly offer to join forces.” You were one of the first members on our site, you made ONE post saying hello and then rather than contribute you disappeared and came here to do your own thing.
And that’s fine. But I wasn’t going to simply assume you were against the idea of working with me. I wanted to know; so I asked in as plain a manner as I could. I offered you an admin position at the site with the same powers over the forum I have.
Chilari I want to make sure you understand that I never said I didn’t like this site. In fact, I like it quite a bit. I was immediately impressed with the site and articles. If Zoe was doing a crap job of things I would still have asked her to contribute to Webcomics Community because we accept everyone there but I would not have asked her to partner up.
And Fluffy I did not ask Zoe to take down the link. Once we have our links section up I will be happy to link here to Zoe’s site, just as I will link to anyone else who offers constructive information on webcomics creation. Taking the link down was her decision. She made it clear to me in her reply e-mail that “I’ve not seen anything on your site that really shows you’ve found your feet in the community yet” and “I have no reason to feel that a) you’re a competitor, or b) that you’ve got anything to offer me if we were to combine.”
Zoe this isn’t about competition or challenges or even my “gobsmacking” arrogance as you put it. You are blowing this way out of proportion. As I said in the last line of my e-mail “I hope you take this message as it was intended. A friendly offering to join forces. I won’t hold it against you if you decide not to take me up on it. You won’t be the first to turn me down. As I’ve said, I’ve been looking for partners since day one.”
Perhaps I could have suggested that you repost all your articles both here and at Webcomics Community? Would that have appealed to you more than simply shutting this site down and coming over there to work with me?
Regardless I think you’ve made your position clear, I think it is a shame you are holding the offer against me but as I said before, I wish you lots of luck. Sincerely. I hope you do well here.
Rob
Wow…that’s a special kind of stupid. Talk about unreasonable demands.
Rob, this was never about publicly decrying your “offer”. It was always about explaining why I decided to cease recommending your site. However, since you’ve decided you want to come and give ‘your side’, I feel it is only fair to put my view of the situation here in response. I will however only be doing this once.
In your e-mail to me, you said the following:
If we had ever spoken before, this would have been an unacceptable request but in your situation, it goes beyond that. It is simply arrogance to assume I would put aside the work I have done, and will continue to do, simply because you want me to. You turned up out of the blue and expected me to just stop, simply because you asked? Just who the hell are you anyway?
You then went on to claim I “have the audacity to push [my] contacts to contribute to [my] site” before stating of your own site that “not a single member has gone after someone else from outside the community and enlisted them in writing an article, giving an interview or providing some sort of content or service to the site. Not even the folks who are assisting me as staff members.” That’s hardly going to win me over, is it? Come and join my site! Nobody’s managed to get anything together yet but I really want you to stop what you’re doing and join us!
Did you ever consider asking if I’d write an article or two for you? I’d have been happy to. But no, that clearly wasn’t good enough. You want me to shut down my site, and post articles on your site instead.
In exchange you offered to provide me with a “slightly larger stage with potential to get much larger”, although I have no way of telling if that is the case. You then went on to say “I have some phone numbers, I have a lot of e-mail addresses and in most cases I get a return message when I send one out.” Now I’m not sure where in the world you are but here in Britain, offering to provide private details like people’s telephone numbers (and you’ll have to forgive me if that’s not what you were doing, because that’s certainly how it came across) in exchange for work is a little crass.
It certainly seems to me that you were saying “write for me and while I won’t pay you, I can give you access to people you couldn’t otherwise speak to!” As a writer and editor for over ten years, I must say you’re not the first to try that and I’m sure you’ll not be the last. Remind me again why these people I’ve never met would want to talk to me in the first place? They don’t know me from Adam.
As for not feeling like you own the site, that’s not how your words make you appear. In your e-mail to me, you referred to “the staff” and said that while you do not always heed the advice of the rest of the staff when making decisions for the site I always try and consult them”. That’s hardly in the spirit of togetherness and equality, is it? I’ve had bosses that talk like that in the past, and I’m in no mood to work for them again.
Finally (and this will be final), you suggest that I turned up on your site, posted once, and then came here. That’s about as far from the truth as can be. I created this site as a blog the day after webcomics.com went pay-only. I created it because I’d been considering putting together an advice site for a while, and the change at webcomics.com was the catalyst. I then heard about your site and decided to pop over and see what was going on there. Since I found nothing much there (you were still building your forum at the time), I posted a quick hello and decided I’d pop back later to see what the site was actually going to do; and whether there would be something I could get involved in.
So what can we learn from this? Firstly, we can see right from the outset that I don’t respond well to people telling me to stop doing something just because they want everything to be focused on their own site (and I’ve already explained why it’s clearly your site according to your words and actions). Secondly, I would have been happy to discuss writing an article or two for your site, if you had asked me. Thirdly, your ‘offer’ is nothing of the sort. Despite the fact that you suggested in your e-mail to me that I may have “created [my] site with an eye towards making money or becoming cock of the walk at [my] own site”, it’s clear we could never work together in any form, because regardless of how you may see yourself, your attitude in e-mails is arrogant and far too abrasive.
Whether you wanted to or not, you insulted me repeatedly while purporting to extend the hand of friendship. That is why I removed the link to your site; that is why I posted about the reason for removing the link; and that is why this will be the last I want to say on the matter.
“I don’t know why you created The Webcomic Builder; and what I mean by that is that I do not have the knowledge of what your intentions or plans are or were when you decided to create the site. Regardless of that I’m going to come right out and ask you to abandon them.”
Stay classy, Rob Tracy.
That’s not the way you ask someone if they’re interested in a collaboration.
I have to say, I’ve got my tentacles on over a dozen and a half web sites that offer “how to” information on webcomic building and if I had to put my name on just one of them (not that I have an ounce of clout), it would be this one! The only goal of the webcomic builder is to help aspiring cartoonists succeed and I think Zoe has done a great job of tapping and pulling in all the various informations out there floating around. She seems to know and understand the existing talents and also has an eye for those up and coming with fresh ideas of their own to highlight.
Rob, your site is on a hiatus ALREADY… not quite sure why you feel this one needs to be idle as well?!? You are a rather dramatic individual it appears, you need to find the lightness of life and realize there is plenty of room for many -how to do webcomics- tutorials. After all, the medium is only 10 years old and quite honestly, still in it’s infancy!
Can’t we all just share and draw together?!? We already have one dude who thinks he’s king of the medium and makes you pay for the privilege of his success! (that sounded snarky didn’t it?!?) o.O
Woo, webcomic drama! TWCB has officially *arrived*!
Oooo….the tension is building! Get it? Building? I really feel like part of a community now. Get it….nevermind.